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Kurt wrote: the cathedral existed as a public, communal space, and the music that lived within it was born of ritual and practice common to all. is it possible for this type of communal space to exist in the present? any discussion of "music and space" in the present, if at applies to real, physical space, seems to tacitly accept the idea of non-public, privileged space, such as the concert hall or "art space". this requires an attitude of elitism, or at least idealism. Drew replies: If shopping malls are the cathedrals of today, then clubs and free parties are its Bacchanalian feasts. It is interesting that, in the UK at least, one of the few recent examples of people reclaiming some kind of public, ritual, communal space has been in the context of amplified noise and a tradition of music and dance. These spaces might not be entirely utopian (they often involve a devil's contract with the cash till) but they still posed enough of a threat to warrant mass detentions, confiscation/destruction of equipment, a few beatings, and new legislation which specifically outlaws repetitive beats in communal contexts (the CJA). These spaces do still exist - even if they have been successfully sidelined from wider social trends - and they offer an alternative to the elitist _and_ idealist practice of 'art' which claims to be outside of society and judged solely on internal aesthetic qualities. This is perhaps why the art establishment has in recent years turned to clubs to find some kind of legitimacy - resulting in the absurdity of the UK Labour government's 'Opera in Clubs' initiative. Kurt said: given how the majority of music is created at present, to discuss virtual or imaginary acoustic space would paradoxically be a more "real world" discussion. Drew replies: The virtual or imaginary are only interesting where they intersect with the real. In the final SenseSonic Session Gregg Wagstaff will be on hand to consider (among other things) how acoustic ecology can also be acoustic design, how soundscapes can be created rather than just conserved (imaginary and real). And elsewhere we can look at how the virtual acoustics designed in the studio can create real sonic environments when reproduced in certain contexts. This kind of 'speaker music' doesn't work with 'real acoustics' in the same way that acoustic ecology does, but if my comments about dance culture mean anything at all, they can create 'real' environments which involve an intimate relationship with the bodies within them, as well as with culture, ritual and technology - a 'corporeal acousmatic' music?